04 April 2018

Episode 199: Mmm Poppin'

More shirt popping happens on Episode 199 which leads into a conversation the boys have about a slang phrase Brent often uses out in public.  Rob also shows off his new look, which you can only see in the episode photo.  Gabe, Rob, and Brent get into a bit of a debate about whether Sega CD should be legal on the Legacy Music Hour.  Brent and Gabe also talk about how much they love the Ganbare Goemon series on SNES/SFC.  Full track listing below.

Game - Composer - Song - Company - Console - Year (North American release unless otherwise indicated)

Soul Blazer - Yukihide Takekawa - Mountain of Souls - Quintet/Enix - SNES - 1992

Zaxxon's Motherbase 2000 - Naoshi Kunisawa - Title Screen - Sega - Sega 32X - 1995

Kouryuu Densetsu Villgust Gaiden - Shinichi Tanaka - Town - TOSE/Angel (Bandai) - Famicom - 1993

Dragon Spirit - Shinji Hosoe (Megaten Hosoe) (comp., arr.), Astron Ishii (arr.), Yoshinori Kawamoto (Kawagen) (arr.), Kazuo Noguchi (Thunder Noguchi) (arr.) - Cave Road (Area 5) - Namco - TurboGrafx-16 - 1988

Leading Company - Yoshihisa Tomabechi, Mark Soskin (improvised solo) - Luis - Koei - Super Famicom - 1993

Battle Mania: Daiginjou - Fumito Tamayama, Yasuyuki Hamada, Yoko Suzuki, Shigenori Masuko - Brawing Up - Vic Tokai - Mega Drive - 1993

Ganbare Goemon 3: Shishijyuurokubei no Karakuri Manji Katame - Kazuhiko Uehara, Yukie Morimoto, Noriko Takahashi, Jun Funahashi, Tomoya Tomita, Nobuyuki Akena - Stage 5 - Konami - Super Famicom - 1994

Metal Head - Teruhiko Nakagawa - Emergency - Sega - Sega 32X - 1995

Ganbare Goemon Kirakira Douchuu: Boku ga Dancer ni Natta Wake - Kazuhiko Uehara, Yukie Morimoto, Tomoya Tomita (guitar) - The Caves - Konami - Super Famicom - 1995

Sensible Soccer: European Champions - Richard Joseph, Matt Furniss (arr.) - Title Theme - Sensible Software/Renegade - Mega Drive (Europe) - 1993

Umihara Kawase - Masahito Nakano (Pas De chat), Atsuhiro Motoyama, Shinji Tachikawa) - Umibe Theme - Atelier Double/TNN - Super Famicom - 1994


  1. I wish I could be there for ep 200. Congrats on the new shop Rob. Is Brent's special available for purchase on physical media? If you can't find an og SF2 cab I agree that using the SNES or Gen is the best option. Another option would be the SNES Classic. It has SF2 Turbo: Hyper Fighting along with 20 or so other games for 79.99 before tax. The emulation isn't perfect but it's better than virtual console versions. You also get the added benefit of the console being designed to work with modern HDTVs. The Sega CD debate is an interesting one. I don't know what the LMH manifesto was during its inception but here is food for thought. I consider the Sega CD and TurboGrafx CD Rom System to be part of the 4th generation. TurboGrafx CD Rom released in 1988 and the Sega CD followed in 1991.

  2. Okay, I’d like to chime in on the SFII issue. I would say the Saturn version is the best legacy port of the game, specifically because the Japanese-style controller is the greatest non-analog pad ever made. It’s also an evolution from the Sega 6-button controller, which was DESIGNED FOR SFII.

    Which brings me to my main point. While the SNES version may be the most played 16-bit console port, SFII:CE for the Genesis will always be the definitive version in my book. This is because in spite of the gravelly voice samples, the 6-button controller is the best SFII experience you can get outside of an actual arcade stick.

    That said, I also feel that good PC emulation of SFII surpasses either of the 16-bit versions. I haven’t used a framemeister, but lag on a modest pc setup on a quick monitor or TV is pretty close to negligible. It may be naughty, but I still think it’s the best way to play the game.

    1. Oooh good call on the Saturn version. The Saturn controller does imo have the best d pad. The Capcom Classics Collection Vol 1 & 2 for PS2 also has arcade ports of SF2. When you talk PC emulation are you talking something like MAME?

    2. Eh, more like Final Burn Alpha. It’s specifically designed for Capcom’s CPS hardware, so it does a better job.

  3. Ok guys, regarding the Sega CD question. Way back when I started listening to LMH, I didn’t personally agree with all of Brent’s Parameters For Legitimacy, but I eventually came to peace with it. For this creation we call LMH, Brent’s own prerogative was that there be a clean line separating music that could be on the show, and music that couldn’t. Although I know history is a lot messier than that, my own golden age of gaming roughly correlates to Brent and Rob’s, so I’m comfortable with the distinctions. There are plenty of other shows out there that play everything else, so if I’m feeling chipped out, I have options.

    Now that I’ve gotten my personal ramblings over with, I have to say that there’s a lot on the Sega/Mega CD that would be perfect on LMH. But it’s not a clean line by any means. Gabe implied two things I wanted to qualify a bit: That the non-redbook(ie, CD) audio on the system sounds like the Genesis(or that it’s easy to tell the difference), and by extension there are basically two different ways the Sega CD creates audio.

    First, the Sega CD includes a 10-channel Ricoh sampler. This is in addition to the 16-bit DAC that allows it to play redbook audio. The sampler was really high quality, and brought the system’s audio more in line with what was standard in arcade titles at the time. Games utilizing the sampler in concert with the YM2612 often sounded closer to something like the Sharp X68000 than the Genesis. By the way, Snatcher does use the Ricoh for samples, even though the Genesis’ chip does most of the heavy lifting.

    But there was a third way to utilize the Sega CD’s audio, which was to stream PCM. When the Sega CD needed to access the disc, such as when streaming video, it couldn’t also play redbook audio. So in all the FMV games, the system is streaming PCM audio(through the Ricoh, I think). This would also not be acceptable to play on LMH(standard episodes), although some examples of Sega CD are the epitome of classic, beautiful, 4th generation VGM specimens. For example: for whatever reason, the past versions of each level in Sonic CD are PCM. That’s the reason they remained unaltered in the American version of the game while all the redbook audio was replaced by Sega of America. But listen to the past version of Palmtree Panic stage, and you’ll see that it’s 100% 4th generation VGM MAGIC.

    In any case, it actually is possible to combine PCM and FM, presumably in a song. I can’t think of any examples off the top of my head, but in games that stream PCM(like Silpheed, for example), you have music and dialogue and sound effects all happening at the same time. I’d guess they could stream PCM in concert with the YM2612, just as they can play audio samples from the Ricoh at the same time.

    1. Wow I had no idea about the whole Ricoh sample situation, that's super interesting. Also I forgot about the streaming PCM audio, that's a good point.

    2. Yeah, and what makes allowing Sega CD games even more challenging using Brent’s Rules is that some Sega CD games even have chip-based and Redbook versions of the SAME SONGS. Shadowrun, Silpheed, Sonic CD and others have CD quality, high-production versions of the song that you can access by putting the disc in a CD player, but when you play the game or listen to the sound test, you get PCM or a sample-FM-PSG version of the track. Trying to find the “LMH legal” version on YouTube becomes even more of a challenge. Consider:

      Silpheed Stage 01 “Scramble” Redbook version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4ExWqWg8yI&index=2&list=PLHv-9jsH9oUW2Y8HcOeMDXswmK4n4hPoI
      Silpheed Stage 01 “Scramble” in-game version, using FM and amazing sample quality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC76InsyrJo&index=2&list=PL-vD6rIjXrcKltNqHYdDDmZJ4AcOX2Yfe

      Or Shadowrun, which has great songs in Redbook and chip(although not the same ones):

      Redbook: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icUi5fChEYY&list=PLHv-9jsH9oUXyRYTZMepg9_1JHxodjmWA
      Chip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ypXrie0H7Q
      With a lot of these, the primary qualitative difference seems to be that the Redbook tracks put a heavy late 80’s reverb on the snare, which I could do without anyway.

  4. All the Goemon talk in the episode made me so happy. Finally, people are starting to appreciate and enjoy these games as much as I do- the series is my namesake, after all! Props on actually beating Goemon 3, that was the only one I couldn't get through. Due to the more exploratory nature of the game and the heavier emphasis on dialogue, the language barrier made that one much more difficult than the others. I love Goemon 4, I own the SFC cart and have beaten it a few times but I was wondering... do you have any pointers for getting through Ebisumaru's boss mini game consistently? It seems if you don't know Japanese, then you have to just guess and hope for the best. It's kind of a bummer because I'll be having a good run, and it will all come to a dead stop when I get to that part. Thankfully, you get get unlimited tries and don't have to start the level over again!

    1. They are so good! For Ebisumaru's boss stage - I had to (and helped Brent with this) use the Google Translate app on my phone, which can translate images live using the camera - not very well at all though. But it worked enough that I got it in maybe 2 tries. One tip i'd say is that it'll try to fool you with the guy with glasses' head on a snail, girl, etc - translation would always give me "father" for those, so if you memorize what that word looks like you can kind of more easily brute force it, since it comes up a lot. (posted with wrong name before)

    2. Thanks for the tip! I'll have to pay attention to that next time I play. I made a "cheat-sheet" for certain parts of the game (like the shopping puzzle in Yae's second town), so I'll see if I can find that word and write it down.

  5. Have you guys heard this soundtrack?:


  6. Hey guys!

    I’m a pretty recent new user (been listening since late 2016 on recommendation from Game Grumps). Just wanted to say that I love your program and just got through all 199 episodes last week! It’s really informative and I’ve found out some new things about video game music and myself, namely that I absolutely love the music in golf games! I would also say I’m on the younger side of the audience spectrum (26) but the SNES has always been my favorite console and I remember playing Genesis at family friends houses. There was one game I remember playing but could never remember the title and you guys helped me out with that too, that being Contra Hard Corps. Anyway, just wanted to start being more active in the community despite my lack of knowledge! Keep up the good work!

    Josh (kewlflip)

  7. Hey guys, new to the legacy music hour. Came here from the poundcast and Brent’s other work and also love video game music. Quick question: I’m in love with this leading company soundtrack and I have to hear more (all) of it. How can I do so without ordering a super famicom from japan and playing this strange yet endearing VHS construction company game. Thanks!

    1. You can hear the whole thing here (note: the second track is a repeat of the first track)...


      For track names, you can refer to this...


    2. Thank you guys! You rule and I will be a loyal listener going forward. Good luck on episode 200!

  8. Brent, I appreciate the constraints you have set on the podcast, even going beyond your constraints by going beyond 16 bit. I think its also cool that you allow music from unreleased games.

    One of the main draws of your podcast is the informative quality that you guys bring to it. In regards to the discussion here, I would ask you this, Brent: In this instance, why sacrifice education for being a stickler, as you say? Your podcast is and has been really educational. And I think allowing SOME and only SPECIFIC Sega CD tracks would be a very good move for you guys because it shows you recognize some musical distinctions of the era and that becomes educational and informative to the users. I didn't even know that there were Sega CD tracks that could possibly be legal for the podcast until you guys started talking about it.

    But Brent, I also see what gives you a headache about making this music legal, so let me say something to Rob. Rob, I think the only way you'd break the discrimination is if you step up your research game. Hit the books! Train in your internet dojo! That's what's really holding Brent back from making some Sega CD tracks legal, isn't it? I think the fact that you've given Brent so many headaches is what really hurts your argument, Rob, even though I'm totally with you on this, man. Brent's got stitches, Switch. Break the ban by breakin' out the books.

    You got this, Rob.

    You got this too, Brent.

    Make the sale. Get the trade done. Do the deal. Get the closer's coffee. And hit the showers, boys.