04 March 2020

Episode 222: You're Fired

Brent and Rob do some job firing in this episode, but it’s very laid back so it’s actually enjoyable.  They also talk a bit about the Sonic movie and well, lots of other things.  Join the Legacy Music Hour Patreon at www.patreon.com/LegacyMusicHour for bonus content like game playthroughs by Gabe and Brent, top ten lists, random on-the-field videos from Rob, additional audio clips and insights, and much more.  Full track listing below.



Game - Composer - Track - Company - Console - Year (North American release unless otherwise indicated)

Castle of Illusion Starring Mickey Mouse - Shigenori Kamiya (Kamiya Studio) - Boss - Sega - Genesis - 1990

Nebs ’n Debs - Richard Armijo (kulor) - Mines - Dullahan Software - NES - 2018

Mole Mania - Taro Bando - Evaluation - Nintendo/Pax Softonica - Game Boy - 1997

Top Management II - unknown - Fired in the General Meeting 2 - Koei - Super Famicom - 1994

Tsurupika Hagemaru: Mezase! Tsuruseko no Akashi - Yasuyuki Suzuki - Island - Jaleco - Famicom - 1991

Alisia Dragoon - Mecano Associates (Fumihito Kasatani, Nobuyuki Aoshima, Mamoru Ishimoda, Yoko Sonoda) - Stage 1-2 - Game Arts - Genesis - 1992

Air Rescue - Yoko Wada (Nasubi) - Breakdown Darkstar (Round 5) - Sanritsu/Sega - Sega Master System (Europe) - 1992

Aaahh!!! Real Monsters - Greg Turner, Eric Swanson, Dave Javelosa - Dump 2 - Realtime Associates/Viacom New Media - Genesis - 1995

Baseball Simulator 1.000 - Akinori Sawa - World Champions - Culture Brain - NES - 1990

World Class Rugby - Koji Hayashi - Main Theme - Denton Designs/Misawa - Super Famicom - 1993

Trinea - Kazuyasu Hiroe (Ya-Su), Kohji Abe (Koji), Tsuyoshi Tanaka (Chackey), Senkyokukun - Shop - Japan Art Media/Yanoman - Super Famicom - 1993

Jack Nicklaus: Turbo Golf - unknown - Set-Up - Accolade - TurboGrafx-16 - 1990

28 comments:

  1. Hot Dog Storm uses two classic arcade sound components: The YM2203, which is used in arcade games like Hang On and Space Harrier, and the the OKIM6295, which is the sample chip used in Street Fighter II and Final Fight. So its music is solely coming out of chips that you've allowed in the past. Rob points out a legit fallacy here.

    That said, I know you guys don't have the time to check every arcade game's hardware setup....Although VGM Rips allowed me to verify this info in about 2 minutes.

    Rob also makes a good point about how modern 3rd and 4th gen games are made. Sure, they're playable on original hardware, but the tools people use today to create new games on old systems did not exist back in the day. To my knowledge, the only recent game-for-an-old-system that was composed on original hardware kit is Tanglewood.

    In the end though, whatever. I'm just glad you're playing this music. But Hot Dog Storm deserves a pass.

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    1. Thing is, arcade machines are their own console, so Hot Dog Storm is a console that came out in 1996, which is beyond the cut-off date. The most modern console played on the show (for regular episodes) is Super Nintendo. If a console came out in 2020 that used the same hardware and sound chip as the Nintendo, games for that console would not be legal.

      And as far modern tools to make games for old systems goes, developers in the past used a bunch of different tools depending on the company -there wasn't any uniformity to that. There's only uniformity in the console's hardware and when that console was released.

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    2. Ever since Micro Mages and Battle Kid got played, I've been wondering if your airwaves should be opened to Game Boy Color tracks, since the GBC is third generation sound-wise despite being fifth generation chronologically, but this explanation makes it clear where the line is, and GBC is over the line. The backwards compatible games should be legal, though (if they aren't already)!

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  2. As for other games that use sampled music, Rob played a track from Nightmare Circus that had a music sample (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze2_YPaRPsM&list=PL-vD6rIjXrcJYrw7Ip2tUhwjvArY1ex6Z&index=19&t=0s , @ 1:00). It's a Genesis sample though, so good luck trying to find its origin!

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  3. Also, apparently the throw voice in SFII was taken from a Yamaha RX drum machine: https://twitter.com/felineki/status/1202458394118021120

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  4. The "Go!" sample in Sonic 3's Launch Base Zone Act 1 was taken from Run-DMC's "Peter Piper".
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZH1o8N9PXU
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo5-74dWGS0

    Also, the intro to SWIV on the Amiga takes samples from Depeche Mode's "People Are People".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s7vxdMR6HE

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  5. The piano sample Brent mentioned at around 13.54 is from The Nat "King" Cole Trio's Prelude In C-Sharp Minor, in case anyone else is curious. It also happens to be be a pretty great tune.

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    1. That is high praise; thanks again. The sample you played next sounds almost like it had to have been from the same recording session. But, I haven't been able to pick it out so far.

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  6. "You gotta baby on the way, I like that. " - Rob.

    This isn't a sample and im sure it's well known but speaking of bomberman tracks this one is straight up the Seinfeld theme. https://youtu.be/aZaSgnYLceQ

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  7. It wasn't me who commented on the 1.000 thing, although I was definitely thinking it when I heard that episode. I just never got around to commenting it, but it's totally something I would have said, so it wasn't surprising or insulting to have it attributed to me! Now, I was thinking solely about how some countries use commas as decimal points and periods as separating groups of three digits, but upon reading fueelin's comment I realized something else: batting averages are written in thousandths but read as if the decimal point weren't there. So "batting a thousand" refers to a batting average that would be written 1.000!

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  8. We was so close to hearing something from Xeno Crisis! :( Just picked up Sayonara Wild Hearts. Thanks for the recommendation

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    1. The game is a Masterpiece. Got all golds in one long sitting. I love it

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  9. Now I'm no lawyer, but I do know a thing or two about LMH law. I agree with the rule that games released on 3rd/4th generation consoles should be legal, regardless of the year they were released. However, this contradicts the earlier rule about Neo Geo games having to be from pre-1993 (or whatever the cutoff was).

    The new rule is great, but let's apply it to Neo Geo games as well! They came out on cartridge for a 4th gen system and there is an untapped library of great tracks that could be played on the show (Neo Geo CD would still be illegal, but they're different consoles).

    What do you think?

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    Replies
    1. Neo Geo is an exceptional console to the rule, because each cartridge is basically it's own console (because each cartridge is basically it's own arcade board). So the same (or roughly the same) cut-off for arcade games is applied to Neo Geo games.

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    2. Just to further clarify, new games for the NES sound like old games for the NES -that is, old NES games were capable of what new NES games sound like. But later Neo Geo games don't sound like earlier Neo Geo games. Some of those games sound very much like a different generation than the earlier ones.

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    3. I respectfully disagree. Each cartridge on the Neo Geo is not its own arcade board, it’s a ROM just like any of the other cartridge-based systems of its generation. In fact, It could rightly be said that the arcade Neo Geo hardware is more like any of the other fourth generation systems than it is like other arcade systems, since the arcade hardware also uses interchangeable rom carts plugged into a set hardware configuration.

      I also think your contrasting the Neo Geo to the NES obfuscates the issue. Yes, the later Neo Geo games sound much different than earlier ones, but it has nothing to do with differing hardware. The Neo Geo only ever had a PSG, an FM chip, and a PCM sampler (not getting into Neo Geo CD; I think we’re on the same page there). Because of the rise in popularity of sample-based music in gaming, as well as the comparative ease of sample-based music over utilizing FM synthesis, composers and sound programmers merely started utilizing the same chips differently.
      A much better analogy would be the way some composers like Jeff Van Dyck composed on the Genesis heavily favoring the sample channel, versus early composers like Tokuhiko Uwabo composing solely using FM synthesis.

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    4. So you think The King of Fighters 2003 or Metal Slug 5 (both of which came out on the AES in 2004) should be legal on the podcast? And do you honestly feel that soundtracks like those fit within the spirit of the show and the spirit of the music that's generally played on the show?

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    5. That’s a different argument. Two different arguments, really. I would say no to both questions. This is Brent and Rob’s show, and I’d say that the show’s character is based on very specific principals they’ve established.

      I guess I’m just trying to point out that there’s a bit of arbitrariness to the rules based on what games or systems we’re looking at. When we’re talking about Neo Geo, the question of whether a game is legal is based on how the music sounds. The established Neo Geo cut-off date is there principally because music from that system sounds different after a certain point. The way you asked the questions about KOF 2K3 and MS5 implies as much. Those games are playable on original hardware; what makes them different is how they sound.

      On the other hand, Hot Dog Storm, a game which is in spirit cut from the same physical and compositional cloth as games made 5 years earlier, is no bueno.

      I’ll tell you what: I’m going to back away from this, because I think I’m giving the impression that I’m complaining or I have some gripe or demand I wan met or something. I really love the show, and while I think things are in reality just too messy to put in neat boxes (even regarding video game generations), I’m just here for the music and banter. It’s fun having these discussions, but not at the expense of everybody’s good will. Oh, and clean out your desk, you’re fired. ;D

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    6. You both make good points.

      I'm pretty sure all Neo Geo games do use the "stock" sound hardware, but there is definitely an improvement to the size/quality of the samples as time goes on. This is also true of the SNES/SFC, but perhaps it's less pronounced. This can result in a different sound in the newer games versus the older games - something that doesn't really occur on the NES with its PSG sound (expansion chips excluded of course).

      Maybe relaxing the cutoff date a little on Neo Geo could make room for some cool tracks that still do have that 4th gen sound. Something to think about maybe.

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    7. This is true, it is sort of arbitrary (the rule, that is) when it comes to arcade games and Neo Geo games, which are sort of considered on the show like arcade games, even if they came out on a home system. And it is hard to really establish rules that are perfect, because there's so much variation in not just arcade games, but even in regular classic home consoles like the SNES and Genesis. Not to mention the major arbitrariness of the top ten lists every year.

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  10. I also think that the NES doesn’t sound quite as homogenous as you imply. Comparing early games like Ice Climber or The Goonies 2 to later games like TMNT III or Lagrange Point or Gremlins 2, they sound quite different. My own kids, who didn’t grow up playing the NES, still sometimes mistake later NES tracks for other systems.

    Sure, it’s less of a difference than early vs. late Neo Geo, but that’s largely because the NES sound hardware was comparatively much simpler.

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  11. That Trinea "Shop" track has a Masakazu Sugimori vibe to me. He did the first Phoenix Wright game. Is that what you guys were trying to think of?

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  12. A dragoon is a dragon rider or dragon tamer, usually human or elf. Dragons or wyverns can be kind of interchangeable in regard to a dragoon though. Ricard from Final Fantasy II is a dragoon, for example.

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  13. Morning, any chance of some bonus episodes. Stuck at home in Norwich, a fine city Brent, and we can't leave. Need some isolation podcasts

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    1. Norwich? Brent lived in Norwich for a year. Norwich, England.

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    2. But for bonus content (and sort of mini episodes), check the Patreon:

      https://www.patreon.com/LegacyMusicHour

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    3. Yeh I remember him mentioning and Matt Furniss apologising 😐
      I'll check it out cheers.

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